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Class 0

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:49 am
by jmbrooks8
How about adding Class 0 to indicate a drive-up?

If all you need to do is get out of your car and touch the ground or a rock, that seems easier than a Class 1.
This would indicate when a peak does not require much effort or time and help with planning.

Even 0+ could indicate a drive-up in only accessible seasons.

Re: Class 0

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 8:08 pm
by doug72901
I would suggest that we take it a step further. If you can "Martinize" by opening the car door and dragging a foot as you swing by a point then perhaps rate it a -1?

Re: Class 0

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:24 am
by John Paul
Hi Doug and JM - I'm always interested in the YDS ratings and glad to see a question about this. Fwiw, I usually interpret class 1 as a drive-up and 1+ as a drive-up with maybe a short hike to the top. Everything else gets a class 2 rating until one has to use their hands, which moves into to class 3, etc... terrain. I would vote for not having a class 0 rating but that's my opinion.

Curious what does "Martinize" mean?

And what does class 2+, 3+ or 4+ mean? Isn't it just class 2, 3 or 4?

Re: Class 0

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:44 am
by Al Sandorff
"Martinize" is when you can touch the highpoint with your foot without having to get out of your car seat

Re: Class 0

PostPosted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:56 am
by MikeRodenak
I think typically the ratings are intended for foot traffic, so a Class 1 is a defined trail to the summit. It does not necessarily mean you can drive, but a road would be a class 1 because if you parked at the bottom of the road and walked the road it would be the same intent as a Class 1 trail. 1+ means the true highpoint is a few steps off trail.

2+, 3+, 4+ are often used to add an intermediate difficulty to a route that is otherwise the lower grade but may have a short section of the higher. For example, a 2+ route is a route that is generally class 2 but may require a move or two that would be considered class 3 for some. Generally I think of it as most people could climb it without using hands, but for comfort they tend to use their hands either because of loose rock, exposure, or maybe just being a little shorter.

If you did do a 0 for drive ups, then maybe 0+ would be 4WD with high clearance, suggesting not all vehicles could drive up it?

Re: Class 0

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:50 am
by John Paul
Well stated Mike R! You helped me get my head around the addition of the + to a YDS rating. We climbed Christmas Ridge last weekend from Thompson Pass and it was decidedly not 3rd class but it had a few moves that made it a little harder than a class 2 walk-up like 6282 which we climbed later that day. After climbing it I wondered why it just wasn't class 2. But after reading your comment I can see why someone would rate it class 2+. I actually just added a note to the YDS rating so folks will have more specific information about what route is 2+.

So Al do you know the origin of the word Martinize? I always thought it had something to do with dry cleaning. Maybe we should call these drive-up peaks Class M and M+ peaks :) jp

Re: Class 0

PostPosted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:07 pm
by Al Sandorff
I believe that it is named after Andy Martin

Re: Class 0

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:30 am
by John Kirk
Mechanical assistance should be independent of class rating. There are many peaks I've done that I consider class 2 that a motorcycle could easily take you to the very summit of. We need to look at class ratings in the absence of vehicular support. You can stand on the top of a 5.12d without climbing an inch of it with the support of a helicopter. In fact, The Palisade (YDS 5.4) has summit visitors from helicopter tours.

As far as class 1, the general consensus in CO is a trail or road takes you to the summit.
1+ is used here to indicate some off-trail (or overgrown trail) that is of little consequence vs. the trail itself continuing.
2+ used here means hands are involved, but briefly, and exposure with hands in combination is minimal.
3+ used here means not just scrambling, but high-consequence scrambling, where the moves are not as difficult as class 4, but an error is likely to be fatal.
4+ used here means harder 4th class, or a long pitch of harder 4th class. Some people have may disagreed about whether it is 5th class or 4th or it comes from a guidebook.

My observations, comparing to CA (and WA) standards (many CA class 1 from Secor are adjusted to class 2 on LoJ):
CA class 1 is anything that is CO class 2 and below.
CA class 2 is CO 2+.
CA class 2+ (often labeled 2-3) is CO 3.
CA class 3 is CO class 4.
CA class 4 is CO low 5th.
CA class 5 seems to begin at 5.6, with a few exceptions.

I'd say we could add a suffix to the class 1 rating to indicate a driveup, like "1-", but sometimes this can be a problem, like presence of gates and property circumstances. Seems like every year I go to repeat something that was at one point a driveup that is no longer so, with closures put in place by the authorities/owners that be. The one factor that is independent of this is how difficult it is via foot travel.

Probably best to add something in the notes of the class rating as a case-by-case approach is needed.

Re: Class 0

PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:06 pm
by KentonB
I've been following this thread with some amusement and interest. Let me throw out another fun dilemna... what if the summit itself would be classified at a high level, but there's a walkway built to the top? In particular, I visited Castle Rock in Michigan this summer. This rock formation is mostly 5th class, with a possible Class 3+ or 4 route up the back side. However, being a tourist trap on private property, the owners have built a pedestrian bridge to the summit. Furthermore, since the summit block is fenced off, this is the only practical (legal) way to get to the top. I rated it "Class 1" after summiting, but would a bridge maybe be considered "aide climbing"? If so, I might need you to remove the Class 1 rating, John.

But before you do...

What impacts might this have for other peaks like Devils Head? I assume its Class 3 rating comes from the final boulder scramble to the top after using the stairs. If stairs were not considered, would this become Class 5?

Re: Class 0

PostPosted: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:50 am
by doug72901

I have always been interested in the ratings and so I have followed with some interest. I think that regardless of definitions they are somewhat subjective by conditions as John points out. In my quest to do all the named peaks in Arkansas I have done a fair share of some unranked peaks and I will tell you that some of these "little" peaks can be death marches when compared to the nice trails you can have on ranked peaks.

My suggestion of a "0" rating was tongue in cheek and was meant to pay homage to Mr. Andy Martin the namesake of "Martinizing".

Merry Christmas.