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Utah 13er names

PostPosted: Fri Oct 06, 2017 11:42 pm
by Scott Patterson
Why were the names of the Utah 13ers changed on LOJ to the ones in Davis Rose's book? The names previously on LOJ were published decades before in several books (all with ISBNs), maps, and publications. Those names were in use years and decades before David Rose came along.

Most of those names have been published since at least 1983, which is 21 years before David Rose published his book changing the names. There are at least five guidebooks that preceed David Rose's book that use the already established names. David Rose was aware of the old names as well because he says in his own book that he used the Kelsey books for information.

Shouldn't the earlier names take precedence, especially since they are well known (and were long before David Rose's book) and in several publications, rather than just one?

I feel that changing long established names of peaks, such as what David Rose (and LOJ, hopefully unintentionally) did, just adds to confusion in searches and peak lists.

PS, I'm out of town now, but I will be happy to scan several books, maps, and lists, with publication dates if needed.

Re: Utah 13er names

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:53 am
by John Kirk
It appears there were no documented references provided at the time for the prior names. I don't own or have access to every possible book, so used a source available to me at the time rather than have names with no reference to pin to them. If you can provide a list and the referenced material, I can look at updating these.

While on the topic, here are UT 12ers with unofficial names lacking a reference in the database (Can you provide a source for these names)?:
Name Elevation Prominence Quad
"Porcupine Mountain" 12892 656 Mount Powell
"Central Blacks Fork Peak" 12869 1074 Mount Lovenia
"South Red Castle" 12825 485 Mount Powell
"North Blacks Fork Peak" 12788 288 Mount Lovenia
"Moose Peak" 12780 480 Mount Lovenia
"East Wilson Peak" 12779 439 Mount Powell
"South Blacks Fork Peak" 12769 349 Mount Lovenia
"NW Blacks Fork Peak" 12747 287 Mount Lovenia
"South Porcupine Mountain" 12729 389 Mount Powell
"North Timothy Peak" 12685 425 Mount Emmons
"Coffin Mountain" 12673 293 Kings Peak
"West Burnt Fork Peak" 12666 232 Fox Lake
"East Burnt Fork Peak" 12666 1366 Chepeta Lake
"South Timothy Peak" 12646 466 Garfield Basin
"Dead Horse Peak" 12642 742 Explorer Peak
"North Allsop Peak" 12625 965 Red Knob
"Meadow Peak" 12545 565 Explorer Peak
"Cleave Peak" 12524 1144 Fox Lake
"Val Benchmark" 12516 776 Kings Peak
"South Yard Peak" 12486 426 Explorer Peak
"Mount Davis" 12443 303 Fox Lake
"West Clover Mountain" 12425 993 Rasmussen Lakes
"Smiths Fork Peak" 12407 334 Mount Powell
"East Deadhorse Peak" 12393 373 Explorer Peak
"East Hayden Peak" 12284 704 Hayden Peak
"North Cathedral" 12283 863 Red Knob
"Bluebell Lake Peak" 12260 440 Oweep Creek
"Priord Peak" 12233 453 Explorer Peak
"North Mount Beulah" 12140 432 Red Knob
"Penny Nickell Peak" 12127 345 Bollie Lake
"Swasey Knob" 12124 304 Oweep Creek
"Wooley Peak" 12062 762 Paradise Park
"Fish Lake Peak" 12060 280 Marsh Peak
"East Delano" 12060 320 Delano Peak
"Lakeshore Peak" 12011 311 Whiterocks Lake
"Deadman Peak" 12006 466 Whiterocks Lake
"Fox Peak" 12004 584 Fox Lake
"Delano-Brigham Ridge Peak" 12002 382 Mount Brigham

Re: Utah 13er names

PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:22 pm
by Scott Patterson
I don't own or have access to every possible book, so used a source available to me at the time rather than have names with no reference to pin to them.

No problem. Most of the pre-David Rose 13er names came from Kelsey's books and common usage. I can scan them if you want to see them.

Here are in the following books (in order of publication date) that predate David Rose's book:

Utah Mountaineering Guide (1983)
Utah Mountaineering Guide 2nd edition (1986)
Utah Mountaineering Guide 3rd edition (1997)
Climbers and Hikers Guide to the World's Mountains and Volcanoes 4th edition (Henrys Fork area peaks) (2001).

While on the topic, here are UT 12ers with unofficial names lacking a reference in the database (Can you provide a source for these names)?:

Yes, I can help with thise since I am the one who compiled the original WMC (Wasatch Mountain Club) lists of 12ers and 13ers in Utah. As far as I know the list I compiled was the first lists to ever rank the rank the 12ers and 13ers by prominence (though referred to as saddle rise). I did it in the Salt Lake Library between 1990 and 1991. (Kelsey's lists in his books, dating to 1983, did have a list of 13ers and other peaks, but didn't follow a set criteria for differentiating separate peaks).

Here is some background and sources:

John Veranth wrote the then updated version of the book Hiking the Wasatch (WMC publication) in 1988 and included the list of 10,000+ foot peaks in the Wasatch. The criteria used was 200 feet though, rather than the 300 fee LOJ uses. I did the same thing for the Uinta Mountains, but it took me two years.

The original intention was for me to publish a guidebook, with the help of John to the Uinta Mountains, but in the end John was too busy and it ended up being too big a project for me to cover the entire range. I ended up publishing the book for just the western portion of the Uintas, while John at a later tume eventually updated the old version of Mel Davis' High Uinta Trails (now out of print). My book is below, but it's also out of print (though I still have a bunch in the basement if anyone wants a free copy): ... 1890828173

Anyway, to make the long story short, I never did publish the guidebook covering all the 12ers and 13ers, but I did create the (as far as I know) original list.

As far as the Wasatch Mountain Club list I created is concerned, this was done in the Salt Lake County Downtown Library, long before topo maps were on the internet! It was quite the task.

Here are some of the sources used for the names for the ones I remember.

Peaks such as the Blacks Fork Peaks came from the Utah Division of Wildlife Resource publication for the Blacks Fork Drainage in the late 1970's. It referred to the peaks as the Blacks Fork Peaks and I was the one that simply stuck the labels on them such as Central, South, and NW.

The same is true of the Burnt Fork Peaks, perhaps referred to generically. I don't remember what UDOWR booklet Burnt Fork was grouped with.

The name Swasey Knob also came from the Utah Division of Wildlife Resource publication for the Yellowstone River Drainage

Of note, the 10er labeled Duke BM on LOJ was also listed as Flat Iron Mountain on the Utah Division of Wildlife Resource publication in the Provo River Publication. I know I do have a hard copy of this one. The Forest Service map at the trailhead (if it still exist) labels it as Duke Mountain.

South Red Castle was labeled as such because some maps and sources such as Kelsey's label it as Red Castle (I do have hard copies of this I can scan if you want to see). The USGS maps indicate that the 12,700 point is the "real" Red Castle, so the name South Red Castle was used to differentiate the two different peaks that are labeled as Red Castle on various maps.

Many of the names of (mostly 11ers) along Highway 150 came from the following 1955 publication, the Rocks and Scenery of Camp Steiner, Summit and Wasatch Counties: ... mp+steiner

Coffin Mountain is labeled in the Utah Mountaineering Guide, 2nd and 3rd editions.

Cleve Peak is also labeled in the Utah Mountaineering Guide, 2nd and 3rd editions. Same with West Clover.

If I remember right, Allsop Peaks were also referred to as such by Kelsey.

East Gilbert is labeled in the Utah Mountaineering Guide, 2nd and 3rd editions

North Cathedral is labeled in a photograph in the Utah Mountaineering Guide 2nd edition.

Val Benchmark is on the USGS map, but the benchmark isn't on the exact summit. I believe that it is also labeled as Val in the old High Uintas Trails, but I'd have to check on this.

Deadhorse Peak is the name the Forest Service uses (or did use) because it is near Dead Horse Pass (I worked at the Scout Camp at East Fork Bear River in 1990 and 1991).

For the original WMC list, some of the peaks were labeled by me since it was suggested to me that I just used the nearest name feature. This is the case with East Hayden (peak east of Hayden Peak), East Wilson, and North Beulah. I was also the one that tagged East Dead Horse Peak because it was east of Dead Horse Peak.

(This is what was done by others before me in the WMC for the Wasatch Peaks lists, such as when Perkins Peak was named for Perkins Hollow and Circle All Peak was named for the Circle All Slide Path).

Unfortunately, for the Timothy Peaks, I don't remember if it was the Division of Wildlife Resources Publication or one that I tagged on because of the Timothy Lakes. Unfortunately, I don't have a hard copy of the older Division of Wildlife Resources book for Swift Creek. I do have a copy of the 1990's one, but those have a different style of map than the ones from the 1970's and early 1980's. I do have hard copies of the old ones for several other drainages.

Penny Nickell Lake is in the the Division of Wildlife Resources publication. I tagged the name on the peak. The same is true for Bluebell Lake Peak and Fish Lake Peaks. It was me that pinned the names on them for the original list. The nearest named features were the lakes.

I know that I have seen the Delano-Brigham Ridge on a map somewhere (maybe the Fishlake National Forest Guidebook-I'm not sure), but the peak itself probably wasn't called out and that one wasn't on the original WMC list.

Re: Utah 13er names

PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:48 am
by Scott Patterson
Scans of old Kelsey books showing names of 13ers (and several 12ers), all several years before David Rose's book.

Also included is the photo labeling North Cathedral.

I also included a map showing how some maps showing how the location of Red Castle varies from the latest USGS map, thus the origin of South Red Castle to differentiate the two peaks. In addition, older maps show Red Castle as the higher (though less spectacular) peak and some old ones even show it as over 13,000 feet. I'd have to do some digging to find them though. From viewing the peak itself, I have always concluded that the "real" Red Castle is the one shown on the 7.5 Minute USGS map, especially since that formation certainly looks like a castle.








Of note, you can see that I did get a fair amount of use out of the old books. ;)


I will try to provide some other scans when time is available.