Peak Removal Questions

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Peak Removal Questions

Postby tracyfoutz » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:04 pm

What is the policy on LoJ regarding unranked peaks that have been removed via mining operations? The reason I ask - there is a soft-ranked peak (http://listsofjohn.com/peak/48517) on my closest 50 unclimbed peaks (of any prominence) list that appears to have had the top substantially removed due to mining activity. I had planned to get near enough to it to verify how much of it has been removed. If a soft-ranked peak has been substantially removed in the field to the point that it is no longer even soft ranked, does that warrant removal from the LoJ database? If it isn't removed from the database, is it even possible to bag that peak? If someone were able to reach the highest point of whatever remains of the peak, would there be a desire to update the location coordinates of the current highpoint? I think that would be opening a can of worms because as mining activity continues, the highpoint location would be a moving target. Or to keep it simple, could someone just reach the highest point of whatever remains of the peak and log it as completed (assuming one could legally access the highpoint)?

If it were a ranked peak like this one, http://listsofjohn.com/peak/48258, it is my opinion that it should not be removed from the data base unless it can be documented that the peak no longer has 300 feet of prominence. This peak, which appears on the topo map of having an interpolated elevation of 3,660 feet, had an actual GPS verified highpoint location (when I hiked it in February of 2009 after years of mining activity) located at 35.9469N, 115.2095W between the 3,560-foot contour and the 3,600-foot contour. Even with the top+/-80 feet removed, the highest point of whatever remains of the peak still has more than 500-feet of prominence. The elevation, coordinates and rise found on the peak page no longer reflect what is physically out there; however, those three things are moving targets due to the ongoing mining activity.

Comments?
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Re: Peak Removal Questions

Postby John Kirk » Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:24 pm

Policy with these has been to retain the listing so that it doesn't come back as a proposed listing again since it is still on the map. The elevation/prominence is adjusted, as well as the coordinates if known.

Examples:
http://listsofjohn.com/peak/105480
http://listsofjohn.com/peak/120778
http://listsofjohn.com/peak/141798
http://listsofjohn.com/peak/151708
http://listsofjohn.com/peak/141797
http://listsofjohn.com/peak/73866

I'll update the latter peak you mention
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Re: Peak Removal Questions

Postby tracyfoutz » Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:42 pm

Thanks for sharing those examples John. I see now that updating the elevation/prominence and coordinates (if known) isn't so problematic after all. And it is consistent with more significant mountaintop removals - like the one Mother Nature was responsible for - Mt. St. Helens. The only difference being that Mt. St Helens has an updated USGS topo map with a more exact elevation. Thanks for being willing to update these much lesser known peaks that are brought to your attention with field-observed/estimated elevation and location changes. In any case, whether it be Mt. St. Helens, WA or Poryphyry Mountain, AZ, if someone is able to visit the highest natural ground (or highest remaining natural ground) that exists at the time they were there, be it pre-eruption or pre-mining disturbance or post-eruption or post-mining disturbance, that person can still log in as having climbed it.
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Re: Peak Removal Questions

Postby John Kirk » Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:11 pm

tracyfoutz wrote:Thanks for being willing to update these much lesser known peaks that are brought to your attention with field-observed/estimated elevation and location changes.


It's been my goal to present the best info possible. Here are some other examples in Colorado, perhaps somewhat more known. Both of these are moving on the continuum from "peak" to "not a peak" since they were last updated:
Bartlett Mountain
Red Mountain

The former listed here may be past the threshold based on what I've seen driving by this last year.

A lot of signs point to dealing with more instances of these situations in the coming years.
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